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Moe Norman Mechanics ‘Specifics’ No 1

William
 

maxxsee - June 1, 2015

Moe did NOT have right arm above left lol. Always underneath and slightly
slightly bent. He did mostly reach though.

    1atomicgolf - June 2, 2015

    +maxxsee Dont understand in what part of the swing you are referring to …
    he certainly had his right arm below his left coming into and at impact…
    as did and does every great player/ballstriker… I dont remember saying to
    put the right arm ‘above’ the left when explaining Moe’s swing… is that
    what you are referring to? JH

    maxxsee - June 2, 2015

    +1atomicgolf 1:20
    I’m sure you know this but was funny.

maxxsee - June 1, 2015

ALso, I do not believe Moes swing was not just for Moes. Moes swing is the
greatest swing puzzles of all time. No one has mastered his swing to date,
not even close. And I’ve seen everyone. But anyone CAN swing like him
(granting flexibility etc) and then all comes down to understanding of his
move. Anyone can make that move if he knew how, guaranteed. There is no
reason why anyone couldn’t. There is no physical barrier there, only
mental.

    1atomicgolf - June 2, 2015

    +maxxsee Maxxsee, I have to differ with you right here… there is
    absolutely no question that specific types of physicality must be in place
    in a player in order that they can perform certain ranges of motion and
    specific swing motion processes.
    Do you think Moe Norman could ever have swung like Bubba Watson or Jamie
    Sadlowski or John Daly/ Fred Couples those players all have a range of
    motion and flexibility in their shoulder joints that allows them to place
    their lead arms in a vertical position with the forearm virtually touching
    the side of their faces… as well I have seen Sadlowski pull his right
    thumb back against his forearm… Daly used to able to do the same.
    How would someone six feet 3 inches tall with with inordinately long legs
    and a short torso be able to get their butt hanging in space behind their
    heel line on the down swing as Moe Norman did … they couldn’t because
    they simply do not have the body segment lengths or the mass in those
    segments to create the type of centers of gravity required to balance Moe
    Norman type mechanics.
    I have personally given lessons to maybe 3000 individuals that wanted to
    swing like Moe Norman when I had the Moe Norman teaching facility for 10
    years… I never once saw an individual that was physically compatible to
    perform Moe’s motion mechanics,, and probably the majority of them were
    more than ‘Mentally’ astute enough to take on board my teaching
    explanations of Moe’s mechanics, some of the players were world class
    athlete’s relative to their own physical capabilities but they couldn’t
    make Moe’s moves because they simply were not constructed physically like
    him .
    I had one guy that offered $25, 000 if I could get him to swing ‘like’ Moe
    did…. he was the 6ft 3 guy with the long legs and short torso… when he
    made the vertical drop into the ball he almost fell over because his
    vertical center of gravity was so high… Moe’s was incredibly low because
    of his mass and short stature.. even when he was young and thin he was
    still a short guy and had proportionally distributed low centers of
    gravity.
    So as I said earlier I must differ with your opinion on Moe’s mechanics
    being only ‘mental’ and not “Physical’
    JH

    maxxsee - June 2, 2015

    +1atomicgolf Yes I also said granting flexibilty etc in my post, meaning
    flexibility, strenth and similar. If those are the similar there is no
    reason why not is what I said.

    I’ll give you some benifit of doubt to moving identically like him. Sure
    there will be some difference in swing even if fundamental mechanics are
    virtually identical.
    That said the mechanics is based around a specific setup with angles,
    wieght at setup, how you wind up around starting position and how you
    transfer in downswing. All these positions can be achieved effortlesly only
    if the previous positions have been made and there is understandig in how
    to swing like him. It is easier said than done that’s for sure.

    Cool story about the guy offering 25k. I’ve done my fair share of falling
    over and loosing balance when trying to swing like Moe. There are some
    understandings that will keep you from not doing this, along with
    development of your balance concering weight shift and tension/troque in
    your right leg/fot when making backswing.

    So sure there will be some variations depending on body size I’ll give you
    that, but the main mechanics can be done with any bodytype. If you’re
    really tall guy you might have to stand a bit more upright than Moe for
    example.

maxxsee - June 2, 2015

4:30 very interesting! thank for sharing that info

    1atomicgolf - June 2, 2015

    +maxxsee Thanks for taking the interest in Moe’s Mechanics, I think we both
    share the same incredible appreciation of Moe’s swing capabilities, I never
    saw him until he was 61 and even then for someone that has spent a lot of
    time watching the greats like Jack/ Sevy/ Tom Watson/ Greg Norman/ Mac O
    grady / etc/etc he was breathtaking to watch his contact and ball flight
    straightness.
    There has never been anyone like him and probably will never be anyone like
    him again, I never saw the great Count Yogi but I know people who did and
    they say he was as amazing as Moe with his ability to hit the ball
    consistently flush and straight, but I would back Moe against anyone who
    has ever lived , he simply astounded me. JH

    1atomicgolf - June 2, 2015

    +maxxsee Your welcome, thank you for taking the time to watch the videos. JH

    maxxsee - June 2, 2015

    +1atomicgolf I believe you. I think the biggest obstacle for anyone
    learning this is that you really have to accept you will ruin your golfgame
    for a number of years after having switched. Especially since no one alive
    can make his move like he did it. So you’re left with all these ideas and
    concepts about what he did and then you have to try and apply these into a
    working swing. Who talented person would sacrifice ruining their game or
    teaching their kid this swing that no one can perform. It’s a big gamble. I
    personally feel confident this can be taught with the correct instructions
    however. Once you learn it I believe it’s as powerful and far more
    consistent than any conventional swing.
    The club from a athletic flexible person will be past parallell at top with
    Moes swing, I think many forget about this.

Ptafs - July 8, 2015

I have watched Moe’s videos and love the simplicity of Moe’s single plain
swing. I am struggling to hit the ball consistently and rather than my
handy-gap going down its moving in the opposite direction. I would love to
adopt your adaptation of Moe’s swing and I am wondering what it would take
and how long it would take based on the skills of an average golfer.

Do you still teach?

    1atomicgolf - July 8, 2015

    +Ptafs I think Moe’s ‘absolute’ mechanics are for most people a bridge to
    far because Moe’s physicality was different to 99% of people … especially
    in his later years which is the swing that is promoted as ‘his’ swing
    ‘type’.
    Moe didnt swing like that when he was young and slender, he had a normal
    length back swing for a start, he still then had the wider stance and
    ‘stretched’ arms address which gave him the single axis plane.
    The tough part for most people wanting to copy Moe’s swing ‘look’ is the
    ‘short’ back swing and the timing phase of that duration, Moe developed
    over a long period as he got heavier and less flexible a timing mechanism
    that blended into his shorter swing length.
    Most people see his swing as short and abrupt and try to copy that
    ‘look’… if you watch Moe carefully he actually has magnificent rhythm and
    flow in his swing which is clearly the key to his incredible consistency
    from that shortish swing cycle.
    I found in teaching people who wanted to swing as Moe ‘looked’ that they
    couldn’t develop the fluidity of his swing and as a consequence they could
    not get the timing of the swing and as a result could not generate the
    necessary power from a shortish swing.
    My variation is clearly way different to Moe’s mechanics simply because I
    couldn’t get his flow or fluidity either…I think anyone can come up with
    a ‘version’ of single axis mechanics to suit their own physical differences.
    The main thing I think people should concentrate on is the basics of trying
    to keep more square on to the ball at impact with the hips and shoulders…
    that basically will keep the club travelling a lot more in a straight line
    as apposed to most swings which tend to be more radial in their paths.
    Just try for a few practice sessions to keep the tight hip/shoulder
    ‘closed’ at impact … that will make you keep your trail foot down on the
    ground through impact which will allow the club to track more linearly than
    radially … the other really integral part of Moe’s mechanics is
    cultivating lots of ‘pulling’ with the lead hand/arm coming into impact…
    and that’s not easy to do.
    So to answer your question…. sure you can build a Moe ‘type’ swing
    ….but it needs to be understood that it will be ‘your’ own physical
    capabilities that dictate what ‘type’ Moe adaptation you end up
    with….will it take long…again depends on how much time you have to be
    able to build the new mechanics …..
    Frankly in all the years I taught the Moe mechanics I only ever saw 2
    people who got remotely close to building a worthwhile version of Moe’s
    mechanics… the reality is that Moe’s mechanics are very difficult to
    learn and apply if you do not have Moe’s unique physicality… he was in
    the history of Golf swing mechanics the absolute most unique physical
    applicator of all time.
    I do not teach anymore because frankly I cant/couldn’t get anyone to
    replicate Moe’s mechanics because no one has Moe’s timing or physical
    similarities… and frankly again after having seen Moe hit the ball as he
    did even in his later years it made me come to the conclusion that all
    other swing mechanics are totally inferior to his… but don’t let that
    stop you trying for yourself to find your ‘own’ mechanics version .
    regards JH

    Ptafs - July 8, 2015

    +1atomicgolf

    Thanks JH. Your are absolutely correct, no one can replicate Moe’s swing
    100%. For me its not about distance, for me its more about accuracy which I
    believe I can achieve by adapting Moe’s single axis plane swing.

    Love your videos, just wondering if you have a video showing how you grip
    the club?

    Cheers

Lea Pustetto - July 24, 2015

I have adopted moe’s swing . Since then , it’s been about 2 years, enact
come from a 16 hcp to a 9.and getting the feel more and more. Your video
has helped me even further. Your explanations help me to feel how the swing
is supposed to be. Keep them coming . And if you ever take up teaching
please send me an email. I live in the eastern suburbs and would love to
have a lesson from someone who actually met and watched him swing a club.
Cheers lea

William Crocker - September 9, 2015

JH,
I happened upon your site for the first time today.I looked at Moe Norman
Mechanics and Reverse Rotation. Both are absolutely excellent. I went down
to the range (near San Diego CA) and hit balls like I have never hit them.
Accuracy and distance were both very pleasing. Your restatement of what Moe
said about driving the end of the club into the ground as you swing was
just superb. I really got results with that and an effortless slide. I used
the reverse pivot too. I blasted pretty straight drives. I put 5 of 6 shots
within 8 feet of the “pin” at 50 yards using a pitching wedge. I was
thrilled. You have done a good job . Bill Crocker (72)

1atomicgolf - September 10, 2015

Hi William,
That’s great to hear ….just remember that the driving of the butt of the
club is ‘at the ball’..not ‘at the ground’….the handle should feel like
it is going to stab the ball on its inside quadrant from a clearly ‘in to
out path’ direction, isn’t it great to be able to find something at your
stage of life that you can apply to your swing that makes a difference, I
always have said you can at ‘any’ stage of life apply something to a golf
swing that will work.
That’s why I myself at 74 years old still keep trying to find things that I
can use to improve my swing, you can never stop learning the Golf Swing,
what did Hogan say… ‘The problem is that there is just not enough
daylight hours for learning about the Golf Swing’
regards JH.

    William Crocker - September 15, 2015

    Thank you JH. Your comments are very much appreciated.

Bill Miller - February 20, 2016

I hit the ball straight every time. I have the confidence for the first
time that the ball will go where ever I aim it. Love the comment in a
previous video that you would develop golf courses with only 15 yard wide
fairways. Saw a video where Moe Norman said he could play in the dark
because he knew exactly where his ball would be, in the middle of the
fairway. If everyone adopted this swing, golf ball manufactures sales would
tank because there would be no lost balls……….I use to loose at least
2-3 balls each week, not anymore, in fact, I have played many rounds
without loosing a ball.

    1atomicgolf - February 21, 2016

    +Bill Miller Hi Bill,
    Thats great you are ‘hitting em down the middle’ now, its a nice feeling to
    know where your ball is going most times.
    I think the tragedy of Moe Norman was that he didn’t play in US opens
    because I think he would have won a lot of them because he hit the ball so
    straight with the driver and typically US open courses have 25/30 yard
    landing areas for the driver, that width would have been zero pressure for
    Moe.
    If you can eliminate those frequent lost balls don’t the scores come down ,
    and the enjoyment factor goes up .
    cheers JH

P SMITH - February 26, 2016

Hi JH
I’ve been reading a bit about swing biomechanics (ie. Ed Tischler’s books)
and swing anchor pivot points. Was the Count a rear anchor golfer with
weight loading favouring his rear leg at address? He seems to flare out
that left foot after impact (sometimes even dragging it back a bit too)
just a bit like Bubba Watson which seems to support visually that he was a
rear anchor golfer.
Also noticed that he has a high track backswing (ie. left arm higher plane
than shoulder plane) but a mid track (ie. through torso) downswing plane.
Suggesting that most of any ‘assisted rotary momentum’ was created via his
torso rather than shoulders or hips (ie. which would cause either a steeper
or flatter downswing plane respectively). You mention he was a momentum
gatherer using zero forces . So are you saying he was in synch with gravity
(ie.producing the centrifugal force ) , feeling and assisting the swinging
dynamic weight of the arms/club unit , by allowing it to fall through ball
to a target while letting his body react and ‘get out of the way’?

    1atomicgolf - February 26, 2016

    +P SMITH Hi There,
    The count was a ‘transverse diagonal’ pivot applicator on the back wing
    like Hogan and Snead but on the downswing didn’t post up against the swing
    momentum like they did, as you can see he let the swing forces move his
    left foot on occasions with the driver ( most times in fact) in a
    horizontal radial arc, that happened because he had so much more ‘up’
    attitude in his swing momentum direction.
    The count swung ‘every’ part of his anatomy…. he was not a ‘torso’ or
    ‘shoulder’ specific applicator… his entire body was ‘reactive’ to the the
    inertial forces of his throwing/lagging back of the club head from the
    start of the swing, he created the the ultimate ‘lag loading’ on the back
    swing by ‘pulling’ on the handle rather than ‘pushing’ … his loading was
    negative to positive as apposed to all other conventional mechanics which
    use positive to ‘increased’ positive loading’s on the downswing.
    The force he created was ‘centripetal’ (center seeking force) ,, that being
    because he was always trying to throw the club head away from his ‘center’
    anchor point…. his absolute main objective was to never move his center
    of rotation laterally as a feeling.
    I was told by his godson and I deduced by my own observations that he did
    try to get the club head going to his right away from him starting down as
    apposed to straight down as would happen if he wanted to use gravity to its
    max effect, the reason for the ‘away’ direction as apposed to the ‘down’
    direction was to increase his dowsing arc length, which is why his swing
    did have that elliptical shape about it.
    I know the Count never thought about ‘anchor’ points relative to to putting
    emphasis on rear of forward points, the only ‘positioning’ absolute he
    wanted was that of his head as the center of his rotational dynamics, the
    club heads ‘free reign of travel’ dictated all his body component responses
    as automatic resultants, you could never categorize the Count’s swing
    mechanics as such, everything that happened bodily was purely the result of
    his intent to move the club head with a pure uninhibited inertial action.
    Bubba has an incredible amount of ‘hit’ in his swing, hence his vertical up
    drive and loss of contact with the ground at impact, the Count had zero’
    hit in his swing.
    Bubba has a ‘Hitting Swing’… the Count had a ‘Swinging Hit’ ….
    regards JH

    P SMITH - February 27, 2016

    +1atomicgolf Many thanks JH for this detailed reply . Fascinating stuff and
    sorry that I posted this comment on the wrong video (You Tube Autoplay must
    have kicked into the Moe video without me noticing).

Mike Fasci - July 20, 2016

hi jhthanks much for your help with natural golf technique I have some used
natural golf clubs I bought on eBay but I can’t find who else sells them in
stores i called natural golfs telephone number to inquire how to get
different clubs to maybe fit me better do you jh know what other clubs I
could use or where I can contact someone with natural golf clubs that will
sell to me I mean what your teaching is it and I’m just interested in some
maybe newer clubs thanks much m.f

    1atomicgolf - July 20, 2016

    H Mike,
    The natural golg guys have been out of business for a long time now, the
    Graves Golf Academy sells Moe Noprman spec clubs in modern type designs
    this is the site http://moenormangolf.com/clubs/recommended-grip-size/,
    contact them and I am sure they will look after you, I will be doing a lot
    more of Moe’s swing mechanics from now on, I am enthused again with his
    mechanics.
    cheers Jh

Malcolm Halliday - October 11, 2016

Where are you located and do you give lessons?
I have been adapting to the minimalist single plane swing by Kirk Junge at
the range i crush it most times but have found on course i over excentuate
some aspects especially too wide a stance and leading to missed shots and
strikes. I have been as low as a 5 handicap but as you know the
conventional swing is a constant chasing game more trying to limit misses
than make shots.

    Malcolm Halliday - October 12, 2016

    I am in Newcastle just wondering as i know Graves have schools on the Gold
    Coast soon just looking at options.

    1atomicgolf - October 12, 2016

    Hi Malcolm,
    I dont know whats happening with the Graves thing on the Gold Coast at the
    moment… haven’t heard of anyone opening up a Graves school.
    If you are only in Newcastle and you come up here anytime just give let me
    know and I will find time to have a chat to you… my email is
    ..jhensby1@gmail.com.
    cheers JH

    Malcolm Halliday - October 12, 2016

    Ok will do i am on the Gold Coast from 2nd November for 10 days with Pan
    Pacific Masters for Baseball. Might be able to sort something out then. The
    Graves classes are advertised in the Culb golf mags this month i think they
    running about 6, 2 day classes and a few one day next month.

    1atomicgolf - October 12, 2016

    Ok, just contact me when you are up here.
    cheers JH

    Malcolm Halliday - October 12, 2016

    I will send you an e-mail tomorrow

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