30 thoughts on “Moe Norman Mechanics ‘Specifics’ No 1

  1. maxxsee says:

    Moe did NOT have right arm above left lol. Always underneath and slightly
    slightly bent. He did mostly reach though.

    • 1atomicgolf says:

      +maxxsee Dont understand in what part of the swing you are referring to …
      he certainly had his right arm below his left coming into and at impact…
      as did and does every great player/ballstriker… I dont remember saying to
      put the right arm ‘above’ the left when explaining Moe’s swing… is that
      what you are referring to? JH

  2. maxxsee says:

    ALso, I do not believe Moes swing was not just for Moes. Moes swing is the
    greatest swing puzzles of all time. No one has mastered his swing to date,
    not even close. And I’ve seen everyone. But anyone CAN swing like him
    (granting flexibility etc) and then all comes down to understanding of his
    move. Anyone can make that move if he knew how, guaranteed. There is no
    reason why anyone couldn’t. There is no physical barrier there, only
    mental.

    • 1atomicgolf says:

      +maxxsee Maxxsee, I have to differ with you right here… there is
      absolutely no question that specific types of physicality must be in place
      in a player in order that they can perform certain ranges of motion and
      specific swing motion processes.
      Do you think Moe Norman could ever have swung like Bubba Watson or Jamie
      Sadlowski or John Daly/ Fred Couples those players all have a range of
      motion and flexibility in their shoulder joints that allows them to place
      their lead arms in a vertical position with the forearm virtually touching
      the side of their faces… as well I have seen Sadlowski pull his right
      thumb back against his forearm… Daly used to able to do the same.
      How would someone six feet 3 inches tall with with inordinately long legs
      and a short torso be able to get their butt hanging in space behind their
      heel line on the down swing as Moe Norman did … they couldn’t because
      they simply do not have the body segment lengths or the mass in those
      segments to create the type of centers of gravity required to balance Moe
      Norman type mechanics.
      I have personally given lessons to maybe 3000 individuals that wanted to
      swing like Moe Norman when I had the Moe Norman teaching facility for 10
      years… I never once saw an individual that was physically compatible to
      perform Moe’s motion mechanics,, and probably the majority of them were
      more than ‘Mentally’ astute enough to take on board my teaching
      explanations of Moe’s mechanics, some of the players were world class
      athlete’s relative to their own physical capabilities but they couldn’t
      make Moe’s moves because they simply were not constructed physically like
      him .
      I had one guy that offered $25, 000 if I could get him to swing ‘like’ Moe
      did…. he was the 6ft 3 guy with the long legs and short torso… when he
      made the vertical drop into the ball he almost fell over because his
      vertical center of gravity was so high… Moe’s was incredibly low because
      of his mass and short stature.. even when he was young and thin he was
      still a short guy and had proportionally distributed low centers of
      gravity.
      So as I said earlier I must differ with your opinion on Moe’s mechanics
      being only ‘mental’ and not “Physical’
      JH

    • maxxsee says:

      +1atomicgolf Yes I also said granting flexibilty etc in my post, meaning
      flexibility, strenth and similar. If those are the similar there is no
      reason why not is what I said.

      I’ll give you some benifit of doubt to moving identically like him. Sure
      there will be some difference in swing even if fundamental mechanics are
      virtually identical.
      That said the mechanics is based around a specific setup with angles,
      wieght at setup, how you wind up around starting position and how you
      transfer in downswing. All these positions can be achieved effortlesly only
      if the previous positions have been made and there is understandig in how
      to swing like him. It is easier said than done that’s for sure.

      Cool story about the guy offering 25k. I’ve done my fair share of falling
      over and loosing balance when trying to swing like Moe. There are some
      understandings that will keep you from not doing this, along with
      development of your balance concering weight shift and tension/troque in
      your right leg/fot when making backswing.

      So sure there will be some variations depending on body size I’ll give you
      that, but the main mechanics can be done with any bodytype. If you’re
      really tall guy you might have to stand a bit more upright than Moe for
      example.

    • 1atomicgolf says:

      +maxxsee Thanks for taking the interest in Moe’s Mechanics, I think we both
      share the same incredible appreciation of Moe’s swing capabilities, I never
      saw him until he was 61 and even then for someone that has spent a lot of
      time watching the greats like Jack/ Sevy/ Tom Watson/ Greg Norman/ Mac O
      grady / etc/etc he was breathtaking to watch his contact and ball flight
      straightness.
      There has never been anyone like him and probably will never be anyone like
      him again, I never saw the great Count Yogi but I know people who did and
      they say he was as amazing as Moe with his ability to hit the ball
      consistently flush and straight, but I would back Moe against anyone who
      has ever lived , he simply astounded me. JH

    • maxxsee says:

      +1atomicgolf I believe you. I think the biggest obstacle for anyone
      learning this is that you really have to accept you will ruin your golfgame
      for a number of years after having switched. Especially since no one alive
      can make his move like he did it. So you’re left with all these ideas and
      concepts about what he did and then you have to try and apply these into a
      working swing. Who talented person would sacrifice ruining their game or
      teaching their kid this swing that no one can perform. It’s a big gamble. I
      personally feel confident this can be taught with the correct instructions
      however. Once you learn it I believe it’s as powerful and far more
      consistent than any conventional swing.
      The club from a athletic flexible person will be past parallell at top with
      Moes swing, I think many forget about this.

  3. Ptafs says:

    I have watched Moe’s videos and love the simplicity of Moe’s single plain
    swing. I am struggling to hit the ball consistently and rather than my
    handy-gap going down its moving in the opposite direction. I would love to
    adopt your adaptation of Moe’s swing and I am wondering what it would take
    and how long it would take based on the skills of an average golfer.

    Do you still teach?

    • 1atomicgolf says:

      +Ptafs I think Moe’s ‘absolute’ mechanics are for most people a bridge to
      far because Moe’s physicality was different to 99% of people … especially
      in his later years which is the swing that is promoted as ‘his’ swing
      ‘type’.
      Moe didnt swing like that when he was young and slender, he had a normal
      length back swing for a start, he still then had the wider stance and
      ‘stretched’ arms address which gave him the single axis plane.
      The tough part for most people wanting to copy Moe’s swing ‘look’ is the
      ‘short’ back swing and the timing phase of that duration, Moe developed
      over a long period as he got heavier and less flexible a timing mechanism
      that blended into his shorter swing length.
      Most people see his swing as short and abrupt and try to copy that
      ‘look’… if you watch Moe carefully he actually has magnificent rhythm and
      flow in his swing which is clearly the key to his incredible consistency
      from that shortish swing cycle.
      I found in teaching people who wanted to swing as Moe ‘looked’ that they
      couldn’t develop the fluidity of his swing and as a consequence they could
      not get the timing of the swing and as a result could not generate the
      necessary power from a shortish swing.
      My variation is clearly way different to Moe’s mechanics simply because I
      couldn’t get his flow or fluidity either…I think anyone can come up with
      a ‘version’ of single axis mechanics to suit their own physical differences.
      The main thing I think people should concentrate on is the basics of trying
      to keep more square on to the ball at impact with the hips and shoulders…
      that basically will keep the club travelling a lot more in a straight line
      as apposed to most swings which tend to be more radial in their paths.
      Just try for a few practice sessions to keep the tight hip/shoulder
      ‘closed’ at impact … that will make you keep your trail foot down on the
      ground through impact which will allow the club to track more linearly than
      radially … the other really integral part of Moe’s mechanics is
      cultivating lots of ‘pulling’ with the lead hand/arm coming into impact…
      and that’s not easy to do.
      So to answer your question…. sure you can build a Moe ‘type’ swing
      ….but it needs to be understood that it will be ‘your’ own physical
      capabilities that dictate what ‘type’ Moe adaptation you end up
      with….will it take long…again depends on how much time you have to be
      able to build the new mechanics …..
      Frankly in all the years I taught the Moe mechanics I only ever saw 2
      people who got remotely close to building a worthwhile version of Moe’s
      mechanics… the reality is that Moe’s mechanics are very difficult to
      learn and apply if you do not have Moe’s unique physicality… he was in
      the history of Golf swing mechanics the absolute most unique physical
      applicator of all time.
      I do not teach anymore because frankly I cant/couldn’t get anyone to
      replicate Moe’s mechanics because no one has Moe’s timing or physical
      similarities… and frankly again after having seen Moe hit the ball as he
      did even in his later years it made me come to the conclusion that all
      other swing mechanics are totally inferior to his… but don’t let that
      stop you trying for yourself to find your ‘own’ mechanics version .
      regards JH

    • Ptafs says:

      +1atomicgolf

      Thanks JH. Your are absolutely correct, no one can replicate Moe’s swing
      100%. For me its not about distance, for me its more about accuracy which I
      believe I can achieve by adapting Moe’s single axis plane swing.

      Love your videos, just wondering if you have a video showing how you grip
      the club?

      Cheers

  4. Lea Pustetto says:

    I have adopted moe’s swing . Since then , it’s been about 2 years, enact
    come from a 16 hcp to a 9.and getting the feel more and more. Your video
    has helped me even further. Your explanations help me to feel how the swing
    is supposed to be. Keep them coming . And if you ever take up teaching
    please send me an email. I live in the eastern suburbs and would love to
    have a lesson from someone who actually met and watched him swing a club.
    Cheers lea

  5. William Crocker says:

    JH,
    I happened upon your site for the first time today.I looked at Moe Norman
    Mechanics and Reverse Rotation. Both are absolutely excellent. I went down
    to the range (near San Diego CA) and hit balls like I have never hit them.
    Accuracy and distance were both very pleasing. Your restatement of what Moe
    said about driving the end of the club into the ground as you swing was
    just superb. I really got results with that and an effortless slide. I used
    the reverse pivot too. I blasted pretty straight drives. I put 5 of 6 shots
    within 8 feet of the “pin” at 50 yards using a pitching wedge. I was
    thrilled. You have done a good job . Bill Crocker (72)

  6. 1atomicgolf says:

    Hi William,
    That’s great to hear ….just remember that the driving of the butt of the
    club is ‘at the ball’..not ‘at the ground’….the handle should feel like
    it is going to stab the ball on its inside quadrant from a clearly ‘in to
    out path’ direction, isn’t it great to be able to find something at your
    stage of life that you can apply to your swing that makes a difference, I
    always have said you can at ‘any’ stage of life apply something to a golf
    swing that will work.
    That’s why I myself at 74 years old still keep trying to find things that I
    can use to improve my swing, you can never stop learning the Golf Swing,
    what did Hogan say… ‘The problem is that there is just not enough
    daylight hours for learning about the Golf Swing’
    regards JH.

  7. Bill Miller says:

    I hit the ball straight every time. I have the confidence for the first
    time that the ball will go where ever I aim it. Love the comment in a
    previous video that you would develop golf courses with only 15 yard wide
    fairways. Saw a video where Moe Norman said he could play in the dark
    because he knew exactly where his ball would be, in the middle of the
    fairway. If everyone adopted this swing, golf ball manufactures sales would
    tank because there would be no lost balls……….I use to loose at least
    2-3 balls each week, not anymore, in fact, I have played many rounds
    without loosing a ball.

    • 1atomicgolf says:

      +Bill Miller Hi Bill,
      Thats great you are ‘hitting em down the middle’ now, its a nice feeling to
      know where your ball is going most times.
      I think the tragedy of Moe Norman was that he didn’t play in US opens
      because I think he would have won a lot of them because he hit the ball so
      straight with the driver and typically US open courses have 25/30 yard
      landing areas for the driver, that width would have been zero pressure for
      Moe.
      If you can eliminate those frequent lost balls don’t the scores come down ,
      and the enjoyment factor goes up .
      cheers JH

  8. P SMITH says:

    Hi JH
    I’ve been reading a bit about swing biomechanics (ie. Ed Tischler’s books)
    and swing anchor pivot points. Was the Count a rear anchor golfer with
    weight loading favouring his rear leg at address? He seems to flare out
    that left foot after impact (sometimes even dragging it back a bit too)
    just a bit like Bubba Watson which seems to support visually that he was a
    rear anchor golfer.
    Also noticed that he has a high track backswing (ie. left arm higher plane
    than shoulder plane) but a mid track (ie. through torso) downswing plane.
    Suggesting that most of any ‘assisted rotary momentum’ was created via his
    torso rather than shoulders or hips (ie. which would cause either a steeper
    or flatter downswing plane respectively). You mention he was a momentum
    gatherer using zero forces . So are you saying he was in synch with gravity
    (ie.producing the centrifugal force ) , feeling and assisting the swinging
    dynamic weight of the arms/club unit , by allowing it to fall through ball
    to a target while letting his body react and ‘get out of the way’?

    • 1atomicgolf says:

      +P SMITH Hi There,
      The count was a ‘transverse diagonal’ pivot applicator on the back wing
      like Hogan and Snead but on the downswing didn’t post up against the swing
      momentum like they did, as you can see he let the swing forces move his
      left foot on occasions with the driver ( most times in fact) in a
      horizontal radial arc, that happened because he had so much more ‘up’
      attitude in his swing momentum direction.
      The count swung ‘every’ part of his anatomy…. he was not a ‘torso’ or
      ‘shoulder’ specific applicator… his entire body was ‘reactive’ to the the
      inertial forces of his throwing/lagging back of the club head from the
      start of the swing, he created the the ultimate ‘lag loading’ on the back
      swing by ‘pulling’ on the handle rather than ‘pushing’ … his loading was
      negative to positive as apposed to all other conventional mechanics which
      use positive to ‘increased’ positive loading’s on the downswing.
      The force he created was ‘centripetal’ (center seeking force) ,, that being
      because he was always trying to throw the club head away from his ‘center’
      anchor point…. his absolute main objective was to never move his center
      of rotation laterally as a feeling.
      I was told by his godson and I deduced by my own observations that he did
      try to get the club head going to his right away from him starting down as
      apposed to straight down as would happen if he wanted to use gravity to its
      max effect, the reason for the ‘away’ direction as apposed to the ‘down’
      direction was to increase his dowsing arc length, which is why his swing
      did have that elliptical shape about it.
      I know the Count never thought about ‘anchor’ points relative to to putting
      emphasis on rear of forward points, the only ‘positioning’ absolute he
      wanted was that of his head as the center of his rotational dynamics, the
      club heads ‘free reign of travel’ dictated all his body component responses
      as automatic resultants, you could never categorize the Count’s swing
      mechanics as such, everything that happened bodily was purely the result of
      his intent to move the club head with a pure uninhibited inertial action.
      Bubba has an incredible amount of ‘hit’ in his swing, hence his vertical up
      drive and loss of contact with the ground at impact, the Count had zero’
      hit in his swing.
      Bubba has a ‘Hitting Swing’… the Count had a ‘Swinging Hit’ ….
      regards JH

    • P SMITH says:

      +1atomicgolf Many thanks JH for this detailed reply . Fascinating stuff and
      sorry that I posted this comment on the wrong video (You Tube Autoplay must
      have kicked into the Moe video without me noticing).

  9. Mike Fasci says:

    hi jhthanks much for your help with natural golf technique I have some used
    natural golf clubs I bought on eBay but I can’t find who else sells them in
    stores i called natural golfs telephone number to inquire how to get
    different clubs to maybe fit me better do you jh know what other clubs I
    could use or where I can contact someone with natural golf clubs that will
    sell to me I mean what your teaching is it and I’m just interested in some
    maybe newer clubs thanks much m.f

    • 1atomicgolf says:

      H Mike,
      The natural golg guys have been out of business for a long time now, the
      Graves Golf Academy sells Moe Noprman spec clubs in modern type designs
      this is the site http://moenormangolf.com/clubs/recommended-grip-size/,
      contact them and I am sure they will look after you, I will be doing a lot
      more of Moe’s swing mechanics from now on, I am enthused again with his
      mechanics.
      cheers Jh

  10. Malcolm Halliday says:

    Where are you located and do you give lessons?
    I have been adapting to the minimalist single plane swing by Kirk Junge at
    the range i crush it most times but have found on course i over excentuate
    some aspects especially too wide a stance and leading to missed shots and
    strikes. I have been as low as a 5 handicap but as you know the
    conventional swing is a constant chasing game more trying to limit misses
    than make shots.

    • Malcolm Halliday says:

      I am in Newcastle just wondering as i know Graves have schools on the Gold
      Coast soon just looking at options.

    • 1atomicgolf says:

      Hi Malcolm,
      I dont know whats happening with the Graves thing on the Gold Coast at the
      moment… haven’t heard of anyone opening up a Graves school.
      If you are only in Newcastle and you come up here anytime just give let me
      know and I will find time to have a chat to you… my email is
      ..jhensby1@gmail.com.
      cheers JH

    • Malcolm Halliday says:

      Ok will do i am on the Gold Coast from 2nd November for 10 days with Pan
      Pacific Masters for Baseball. Might be able to sort something out then. The
      Graves classes are advertised in the Culb golf mags this month i think they
      running about 6, 2 day classes and a few one day next month.

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