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Natural Formation For A Conventional Golf Swing

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Sand Bunker - February 1, 2017

Good day JH ūüôā

This is one of the absolutely BEST VIDEOS I’ve ever seen on the principles of setup and takeaway. Hope that downswing vid is next ?

A couple of quick questions:
1. is lifting the left heel OK ?
2. is bending the left arm OK ?
3. when to stop the back swing, and start the downswing ?

Thanks and cheers !!!

    1atomicgolf - February 2, 2017

    Great Players have lifted the lead heel…. Nicklaus/Snead to name just two….as long as you¬† brace the trail side and turn as much as you can into it¬† doesn’t matter if the heel lifts… invariably its only a lack of hip extensor flexibility that¬† causes the lead heel to lift to facilitate¬† the turning of the hips . ¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† Bending the lead arm is ok … in fact bending ‘both’ arms is ok… if you just think about the force dynamics of the golf swing¬† which¬† is most prevalent in the downswing the weight of the club head and the vertical¬† down force will straighten any bends from the arms at impact…. in fact try swing full out and keeping your arms bent through impact… bet you cant do it easily.¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† The advantage for older players in bending the arms on the backswing is the extra range of travel you can get from the club head… and no matter what anyone says its the amount of travel¬† the club head can make which normally creates more club head speed…. no world long drive champion has ever had a short travel swing… or any Tour player¬† of significant length for that matter …. the exception being JB Holmes¬† and whereas his¬† swing is short looking its not because his club head¬† whilst not going past parallel¬† it¬† goes a long way vertically so his swing arc is very big. ¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† I frankly do not know why teachers generally don’t teach a bent¬† arm backswing for players that lack distance.¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† You cannot think about a¬† ‘backswing’¬† or a ‘downswing’ in isolation¬†…. in a correctly formatted anatomically applied swing¬† the backswing will change direction automatically¬† because of the built up reflexive torque loadings that occur when the lead side is stretched away from its address position into the resisting trail side formation…winding the rubber band up. ¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† Players who do not get an automatic starting forward of the lead side for the downswing invariably have no¬† bracing resistance in the trail side at the top of the swing… you just have to make sure the trail leg doesn’t break down on the backswing from its address position… most good players are actually pushing¬† towards the target with their trail leg on¬† the backswing and just keep that push going against the coiling lead side. ¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† To get the feeling of¬† the trail side bracing on the backswing just kick your trail knee in towards the target at address a bit and keep it there in the backswing … you will feel a lot of need for the lead side to¬† want to¬† start unwinding back to the ball by itself because of the resistance of the trail leg/side on the back swing.¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† cheers JH

George Smith - February 2, 2017

From what I understand of a conventional golf swing (I would consider Bobby Jones “conventional”) the “release” just happens and therefore does not have to be produced by an intentional effort (i.e. casting away of wrist angle). That’s one advantage that to some degree offsets the disadvantage of not having the arms tied to the body and restrained. Perhaps those with really weak hands are relegated to some form of conventional swing for that reason (not having to produce “release”)
The problem I’ve had with both DaVinci and C-motion is that there is an indivisible “atomic particle” at the base of both that if you cannot do it consistently, you wont get consistent ball striking. That “particle” is the ability with hand strength, eye-hand coordination, and athletic talent, cast the club head at the ball, hitting it on or near the sweet spot. (If you cant do that when you’re standing still how can you ever to it while the body is turning to face the target?) You and Lee (and all Lee’s students who’ve posted videos) all seem to have strong hands and can do that as naturally as reaching for a door knob. In a full year of watching your various swings I’ve never seen you top a ball, hit a shank, lay sod over the ball, hit it way out on the toe, etc. You pure it almost every time regardless of the type of swing you were working on.
For me my search continues to find something simpler than a full conventional swing but which does not force me to manufacture a release. Not sure if it exists.

    1atomicgolf - February 3, 2017

    Hi George, ¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† You are absolutely correct in suggesting that different levels of athleticism¬† will make¬† the golf swing easier¬† in some instances ……Bobby Jones is an interesting comparison… Bobby wasn’t an athletic person at all… he had very little true strength or flexibility … the lack of flexibility was highlighted by his ‘total body’ turn in his back swing… he had zero midriff flexibility and clearly found out early in his golfing life that he couldn’t¬† turn his shoulders against his hips¬†¬† with any degree of separation¬†and because¬†¬† of that would never have been able to get the club head back far enough to generate any club head speed. ¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† To that end he found he had to turn his hips as much as his shoulders to get the club back¬† far enough …no one in history turned their hips as much as he did or lifted the lead heel as much …. ¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† His lack of muscular strength was indicated by his inability to keep any pressure control with the¬† fingers relative to his grip as well in that he flat¬† just let his left hand fingers come of the club at the top of the back swing ..the classic ‘Piccolo’ grip…. then re grabbed the grip starting down which¬†created his little over the plane downswing path …over his back swing plane that is.. he still attacked the ball from inside the line … the same as Sam Snead did as well. ¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† The point is Bobby’s swing was a result of his personal physicality he simply didn’t have the body strength to power apply the club head to the ball or support such an attack¬† with his lower body as someone like Arnold Palmer or Jack Nicklaus could do….. you point about hand strength in particular is totally valid in Bobby’s case.¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† ¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† I don’t believe there is such a thing as a ‘Natural’ swing¬† or release but only a swing that best suits an individuals physical capabilities …. having strong hands or less than strong hands I don’t really ¬†think is the issue… I think a lot of the problem comes from not using the available range of strength anyone has with their grip strength. ¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† Traditional teaching has suggested¬† in the main to not grip the club with any¬† undue pressure and as a result I think that has been the problem for most players… everyone has a reasonable level of hand grip strength but with the golf swing I just think it is never applied enough to support¬† the rigors of¬†¬†a fast moving golf club . ¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† There is no doubt in my mind Hogan¬† applied a lot grip pressure¬† as did Palmer/Player and Greg Norman ..ok they were strong people in the hands/forearms but the point I am trying to make is that you really should be applying more grip pressure than is traditionally thought¬† and for most players there is a lot of unused grip pressure capability not being used generally. ¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† I think you would be surprised if you tried a more ‘deliberate’¬† application of the club head to the ball¬† by just¬† applying more grip pressure than your normally do in conjunction with the overall ‘deliberate’¬† mechanics structure of the Davinci Code Swing…. I think¬† the¬† swings of Bobby Jones/Ernie Els/ etc. are great for those¬† guys because they¬† clearly can¬† get their bodies to perform¬† as they do but for other people who do not have their types of¬† range of motions or¬† tempo¬† types I believe¬† a more ‘constructed’ type swing is¬† more within our capabilities….. just try a very short swing¬† and grip the¬†club super tight¬† and really fire the¬† release throw as hard and as early as you can and see what happens… you might be surprised.¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† cheers JH

George Smith - February 2, 2017

JH, I hope you’ll comment (or do a video on) this recently published Mike Austin video originally recorded in 1987. It’s one of the most amazing explanations of a golf swing I’ve ever seen. I believe he was 77 years old at this point and the way he crushes the ball near the end of the video is Snead like.

    1atomicgolf - February 3, 2017

    Hi George, ¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† Mike Austin IMO had the most¬†efficiently ¬†generated power/speed in a Golf Swing ¬†ever produced by any human… I am a huge fan of both ¬†he and Mike Dunaway … the compound pivot Mike used is really the only true pivoting action¬† a Human can make in the Golf swing… I have seen this video a hundred times and never ceases to amaze me.¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† Mike Dunaway said he and Mike Austin went to Japan I think when Mike was 80 years old and did a Long drive exhibition for a couple of weeks… Mike Dunaway said Mike Austin’s ¬†average distance over the hundreds and hundreds of drives during the tour was over 305 yrds… I will dig up the video where Mike Dunaway¬† mentions it. ¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† There is so much in Austin’s¬† swing mechanics that should be¬† standard teaching in all instruction on the golf swing… I love everything about Mike’s swing mechanics.¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† cheers JH

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