Posted by William on October 25, 2016 in Davinci Code Golf
Sir, stop misleading people. The lower body generates the speed in the
golf swing. I can even see your lower body going into action during your
so called right arm demonstration of power. Especially your entire right
side using the ground for leverage and power. The arms cannot initiate
the power, the legs do since the legs and not the arms are in contact with
the ground, the arms get their speed from the legs, the legs and the
ground. Same for pitchers, quarterbacks, or any throwing sport.
+D Slatt I wonder how far you would hit a golf ball with your club going at
the speed rate of your legs, the fastest the legs can ever move with anyone
is around 6-8 mph, they can onl;y move at that speed because there are no
accumulators/.levers /hinges that can be released from their hinged/stored
About 80% of swing speed comes about from the unhinging of the trail
forearm down against (in conjunction) the trail wrist , the lead arm
because it is just a radius lock because it has not been hinged in the back
swing produces only a component of speed that is relative to a single non
The legs provide a ‘stabilizing ‘role in order to support the accumulated
energy that will be released from the hinged levers of the trail arm,
invariably all batters/throwers initiate the downswing with their legs
because of the built up rotational torque that is generated in any action
where mass is moved in a coiling fashion from one side to another.
There has been a number of studies done that support the the value of the
trail arm hinges constituting around 80% of all swing speed generated in
the Golf swing, its the components that move ‘quickly’ that generate the
speed, not the ‘slow’ components.
quite right i think, recall Sam Snead would hit 250 yard drives kneeling
!!! when he did exhibitions and a buddy of mine who was a scratch player
could do the same, also hitting 250 yard drives sitting on a chair
I really liked this video. I appreciate all the information. Keep the
videos coming, sir.
John, excellent point on the right elbow around the rib cage. And also
driving the right elbow past the belly button(Hogan Connection).
+Tim Flaherty Hi Tim,
The elbow of the right arm around the rib cage is something that is lost in
discussions and analysis of Moe’s mechanics, as well people do not see how
soft his arms are on the back swing and how there is zero effort to gain
any ‘extension’ of his arms on the back swing, as I said he told me he did
the exact opposite….that being he tried to just ‘fold his arms up on the
back swing and tried to actually wrap them around his body, just try
exactly that some time and see how much velocity you get in your arms on
the downswing as they ‘unfurl’ so to speak.
Thanks for the advise. Seems to me Moe shared maybe 50% of what he really
knew and you had to decode his language too.
+Tim Flaherty Probably 50% to the public and 100% to me. Since 1974 I have
been the true authority on Moe Norman’s original golf swing he won all his
Hi there John. I am on my own quest for perfect ball striking, and am
working pretty hard on the range… Winter is coming, so I am gathering
information as I want to be sure to get the right moves ingrained before
next season. Right now the main thought is as you said trying to drive that
elbow down and in front of the hips. Also I find it feels really nice to
start the transition by “sitting down” so to speak. What I mean that it
feels good to move laterally and at the same time get the feeling of weight
on the heels and middle of feet… Is that correct perception in your
opinion? Also I heard that MOE pulled a lot. When I do that, I feel like my
consistency drops and I hit it worse. You might say I’m a little right vs.
left side confused. I’m right handed, btw. If you want to, check out my MOE
inspired swing on my channel here in YOUtube. Greetings from Denmark ;-)
I looked at your swing, you have a great action for a big tall guy relative
to Moe mechanics, and super tempo, I don’t think you need to do much at all
with that swing , its essentially technically where you need to be going.
With regard to the ‘pulling’ aspect just concentrate on keeping pressure on
your right butt cheek and inside right heel as you pull with the left
hand/arm, that keeps the right hip back and closed and gives you something
to pull’against’ with the left hand/arm.
When you ‘sit down’ just make sure the ‘sit down’ is ‘clockwise’ with the
hips, that will get the right leg staying inside the left leg transitioning
which helps with the head remaining over the right knee which also gives
something else to ‘pull away’ from with the left hand/arm, remember the
left hand/arm has to be pulled ‘away’ from the right ‘clockwise’
turning/holding right groin/ butt cheek / inside right knee components.
The only other thing I would add is try to ‘flow’ your setup and takeaway
more and not be to rigid in the setting up and starting of the swing, you
have a great action even now with your swing at its current stage of
development, I am very impressed., and so would Moe have been.
I recall Moe saying he pulls like crazy with the left hand and the right
does nothing. It’s just going along for the ride. Contrast this to Hogan
who said he wished he had three right hands.
+Ted Edwards DC (AllergyExpert) Hi Ted, Moe did say he pulled hard with his
left hand…but that can be confusing for most people because you have to
remember Moe was left handed and because of that he clearly had more
strength and dominance in his left hand/arm.
He neglected to tell most people that like Hogan who was also left handed
starting out with golf and changed to a right handed swing they both knew
that the trail arm had to apply as much force as it could because it was
the power accumulator because it was was hinged at the elbow in the back
swing, unlike the lead arm that remained straight and was virtually a
‘radius lock’ because of it non bending function as per the trail arm.
Moe told me he like Hogan hit very hard with his right hand/arm but that by
pulling as hard as he did with his left/lead arm/hand he created more
efficiency for his right/trail hand/arm to deliver its power through the
unhinging action of the the right elbow through impact.
In fact Moe showed how much more power could be generated with the trail
arm/hand compared with the lead arm/hand… he simply took a 9 iron and
gripped it only with his left hand and hit 3 shots.. he then did the same
with his trail arm and just folded it up on the back swing and unfolded it
through the ball… the power /distance difference was clearly
significantly higher with the trail arm application.
Johnny Miller was left handed and played right handed as well, and he
clearly has always referred to opening the club ace on the back swing just
smacking the right hand as hard as he could against his left hand to square
up the club face and apply maximum power availability.
The trail arm/hand will always be the major source of power in any golf
swing because of its hinging/folding process on the back swing.
I too am left handed, playing right handed golf. I thought power
accumulator was golfing machine terminology.
BTW I took what you mentioned about how Moe pulled his right elbow to his
side on the back swing to the course today and I felt it helped quit a bit.
I actually chip/pitch quit effectively from 30 yards in with just the left
arm/hand. When I put the right on there it wants to steer, push and
otherwise make a mess of things. So a few years ago I decide to leave it
Funny, I’ve watched a lot of Moe Norman video. Followed Graves and the
rather strange Kuykendall and Evershed and others. First time I’ve come
across you here on YouTube. Enjoying your insights into the mechanics of
Moe. Especially when you describe what he said he felt.
+Ted Edwards DC (AllergyExpert) I have never taken on board what people say
they ‘Feel’ in their swings because feel is so different to what ‘actually’
is happening or takes place in a Golf Swing, to that end I always get
people to ‘show’ me how and what they ‘actually do’ with their swing
Some of the stuff Moe said he felt he did he clearly didn’t do and after I
broached those ‘feel’ things as apposed to what he did in reality he agreed
with me , he did however say that his ‘feelings’ even though they were not
real in swing application they did ‘create’ the swing ‘effect’ he wanted.
I complied with his explanation and repeated the Kuykendall assessment
of…’ Correct Thought Perception , Incorrect Reality Body Science’ …
Jack was a strange guy but he was quite perceptive in some areas of
analysis, he did himself some injustice when he tried to be a
‘demonstrator’ of what he perceived as Moe’s swing mechanics, he just
couldn’t hit the ball the same twice and hit a lot of awful shots
demonstrating with his swing.
I am going to do a video before Xmas on chipping/pitching and why most
people have difficulty with that part of the game, there is for most normal
club players a simple answer to developing a sound chipping/pitching action
and its for most players the complete ‘opposite’ of what they think they
should do when chipping/pitching.
Of all the players that came to me over the years for chipping/pitching
problems there wasn’t ‘one’ that I didn’t send away with a new
understanding of how the hands/arms actually are supposed to work with
chip/pitch shots, so it might be good for you and your chipping/pitching.
Interesting interpretation of Norman’s swing – thx for the vids. But I have
to disagree about the hips.
+MaqAttaq1 Hi Maqattaq,
Glad the vids are of interest, hips activation and processes are different
for all players and the particular type of swing mechanics you are using
and your bio-mechanical body component application/capability, as we see
with Moe Norman he does not ‘rotation clear’ his hips to set his club for
the downswing as someone like Bubba or Ricky Fowler does.
For Moe the ‘stretching’ of hid left side from the pelvis to his left
armpit compresses his right side and sets the club for his downswing, the
resultant of the club head setting is the same but it just happens by way
of a different method of force dynamics being applied relative to an
individual body makeup capabilities.
When Moe was young he had very fast upper body rotational unwind
capabilities but I think he found by experimentation that his hips were not
fast enough to work with his upper body capability and he probably found
that ‘sliding’ his hips instead of trying to ‘rotate’ them early/quickly
was easier to do, just my thoughts on his final evolution of the slide as
apposed to the rotation.
I apologize if this has been covered already but I’m curious about your
grip. Specifically the strength of your lead hand, are you strong, neutral
, or weak? I’ve been swinging single plane for a couple of years now and
I’m always looking for more info.
+Jgb333 I really am not a ‘Strong/weak’ grip advocate in any manner or form
, I believe your hands will position themselves correctly if you position
your elbows/upper arms correctly to your chest/pec area.
All I try to do is get a good/solid connection of my upper arms to my upper
torso without any undue manipulation of my arms/elbows etc, when that
happens invariably the pockets of the elbow joints will position themselves
on the same plane as one another, they may end up positioned looking
upwards as per Hogan or like Moe Normans which tend to be more sideways
Because we all are built differently with chest sizes and hand sizes you
have to experiment to get a grip position for the hands that that just
squares the club face consistently at impact , my own grip if you want to
put a description on it would be in normal teaching terms I suppose
considered ‘neutral to weak’, but so would Hogan’s and Johnny Millers
grip’s be considered ‘Weak/neutral’ and they were both very strong hitters
of the ball.
I just get my own grip to create a consistent ball flight … I never think
about ‘where’ my hands are supposed to be but more ‘how’ they are getting
the club face to respond through the ball, its just cause and effect for
me, when the ball is going where I want it to go all the time my grip is
where it needs to be.
Thanks for such a quick and detailed response. All the literature I’ve been
reading regarding the single plane swing lately has been so mechanical that
I think I’ve tightened up. Your approach seems to be more user friendly and
you account for different body types, it’s refreshing. I’ve gone from a 20
to a 9 with the SPS and I’m just looking for more refinement. You have
almost an Ernest jones “swing the clubhead” attitude. I would love some
more moe related video’s. Do you have any plans to offer video analysis or
any other teaching tools…I think there would be an interest
+Jgb333 If you look back through my videos (of which there are only around
180 or so on my channel which is only a part of the number of videos I have
done on ‘lots’ of different aspects of the Golf Swing) you will see that I
do generally explore lots of different facet/aspects of the Golf swing.
I am very much a club head ‘momentum’ person when it comes to a definitive
denominator in the Golf Swing, I just believe you will never achieve
consistency in setting the club head at the top of the swing correctly if
you get it there any way other than ‘free swinging’ it there, I just don’t
see how anyone can consistently ‘put’ a golf club in position because the
‘amount’ of ‘put’ varies so much with the human physiology shot to shot.
The tennis ball on the piece of string will always orbit the same if you
just let the mass of the ball have free reign and not try to ‘put’ the ball
into a position, as long as you can by any means get the club head to
‘orbit’ around your body you are in some way applying ‘swinging
momentum’… which is really all you have to do.
I will be doing some videos in fact tomorrow on how the ‘swinging momentum’
can be supercharged to create significant power by what I term ‘Stationary
Velocity Dynamics’ … simply meaning…the more you can stay’ in place’
when you rotate your body on the back swing and in particular the down
swing the more ‘slinging velocity’ you will achieve, which was Hogan’s
secret I believe to his significant power generation from a relatively
small non muscular person.
These dynamics are the opposite of what Moe Norman did in his down swing
and was IMO the reason he wasn’t a long hitter of the driver, whereas Hogan
I think I understand what moe did but in the after hitting that many balls
theirs that 1 key. l have not heard anywhere that works well for me.one
conciese thought before to impart your will on the ball.
+Nat McIntosh Hi Na t,
I think I understand what you are getting at…. if it is in fact the ‘
specific thought application’ of trying to control the clubs outcome in the
Golf swing I believe it goes a lot further than that.
You can have all the great ‘thought intentions’ you want but if you haven’t
schooled your body through repetition of specific body structure mechanics
the body will not respond to the ‘specific thoughts’ because their is no
ingrained motor movement ‘program’ that will respond sub conscious.
I know by my own experiences on many occasions where I have tried to
‘think’ a new type shot into action on the golf course but it doesn’t come
off because I haven’t built a program before that knows what to do ,
simplifying the understanding…I could ‘think’ of throwing a baseball
pitch in a certain way , but if I hadn’t practiced that ‘way’ before and
built the body response mechanism to get that ‘way’ effect I could never
pitch the ball with any semblance of correct resultant.
PS . I guess the best way of explaining what I mean is this..’ you cant
‘think’ any motor movement into application without first getting the brain
to accept the new’ requirement’.
Clubhead speed is not due to centrifugal force . Momentum, Moment arm, and
summation of forces are the key physics principle. Javelin throwers and
high jumpers have to run first to develop momentum just like having a
longer arc with a full shoulder turn. The longer a force is acting to move
an object , the more momentum you produce on that object. The driver is the
longest therefore, longest moment arm. With the same angjular velocity ,
the longer moment arm the faster the linear clubhead speed is. Ben Hogan
tucked in his right elbow to the right side to measure down to the ball and
to summate the turning through of the body with the arm swing.Shorter clubs
have shorter moment arm designed to hit a certain distance. This is the
reason why the driver hits the longest because it has the longest moment
arm and that’s why it is limited to 48 inches.
J.H. Did you ever play 18 with Moe? If so share some comments on the play.
Thanks, Bill. Wadsworth, Ohio
+Bill Miller Hi Bill,
No never actually played with Moe, just never had the time, I never wanted
to burden him with constraints of association , ( if the truth be known I
was so scared of showing my playing capabilities to Moe compared to his) he
was always happy in the conversation mode and I had him captive so to speak
with no distractions, I never spent a great deal of time with him overall
but the time I did get with him was incredibly enlightening for me because
he answered the specific questions I put to him in a totally spontaneous
and unguarded manner.
Thanks for taking the time to put this video up. This is a VERY good
breakdown of what Moe was doing in his swing. I have studied every Moe
Norman video that I have found on youtube. This video is fantastic! Thanks
Glad the video helped.
Glenn MThink your videos are fantastic I have been using Moe swing for a
month or so with sometimes very good results others not so good but I had a
question. I also spent a lot of time on Trevino’s swing and was wondering
could you give me your thoughts or even a short video on your recommended
version and imput on his swing. Any info would be much appreciated and
keep up the good work. Thanks again
Glad you like the videos, sure I can do something on Trevino, I actually
used to teach the Trevino swing way back, Lee was at his peak the best ball
striker playing World Golf, Moe Norman was of that opinion as well, it will
be good for me as well to ‘re visit’ Lee’s great mechanics, if the weather
is ok tomorrow I will do a video outlining Trevino’s swing mechanics
compared to that of Moe’s, as I said it will be good to visit Lee’s great
Fantastic I will look forward to it. Glenn
Hi JH – Just revisiting your Moe videos and wondering whether one needs to
implement a specific single axis type grip (ie. grip more in the lifeline
of the right hand through to the middle joint of the trigger finger) to get
that ‘alignment’ of rear forearm with clubshaft at address? Or can we just
use whatever grip gets our clubhead square at impact but have a higher left
wrist (ie. no cocking ) at address which would make it easier to align the
right forearm with shaft? A down the line view would show that the left arm
slightly in front of the right arm. What do you suggest? I am also assuming
that Moe just tossed the clubhead back and didn’t ‘place it’ in a
‘backswing’ (ie. like swinging a ball on a string).
Its advantageous to get the club shaft aligned as much with the trail
forearm as possible at address, the grip depends on how your hands are
proportioned anatomically, if you have short fingers its difficult to get
any purchase with the ring finger and little finger of the trail hal hand
when you position the grip in the lifeline, that is what happens with me
personally which is why I have a hybrid Vardon type grip.
Bear in mind Moe did not hold the club in the lifeline until he went to
Natural Golf, in fact he didn’t have a split grip at all during his playing
days, so I think the main thing is to work a grip out that allows as much
of a single axis with the trail arm as possible, whatever that grip ends up
being, Moe definitely didn’t ‘place’ the club head going back, he just
‘tossed’ it back and let momentum sort the club head out.
Thanks JH – I do have small hands/fingers and find it impossible to do the
Vardon grip. Tried implementing it several weeks ago and inflamed the top
joint/tendon on my right hand pinkie joint (the joint nearest the tip –
very painful). So I reverted back to my normal 10 finger grip and tried to
get the shaft more between the ‘HEAD and FATE ” palm line area of my right
hand. Felt that it restricted my usual ‘piccolo’ type ‘give’ in my right
hand fingers at the top of my backswing/transition and kept the back of my
left wrist relatively firm. It felt as if I couldn’t freely sling the club
with my right hand but does that ‘feel’ mean I am doing something correct
or incorrect? My normal grip with my right hand is where the grip traverses
from the mid joint of my trigger finger through that area between the HEART
and HEAD line area. I know that there is only a subtle difference between
the 2 grips (ie. ‘free’ piccolo type vs ‘restricted’ piccolo type feel),
but I’m unsure which is technically correct.
I dont think there is a ‘technically’ correct grip with the single
Axis/plane endeavour, its what you can use effectively and get as close as
you can to single axis , there are so many anatomical aspects of the
hands/wrists/fingers that contribute to differences and capabilities of
Just the Ulnar flexion range capability of the wrists can have a huge
impact on a players ability to correctly set his club shaft in line with
his trail forearm in the single axis mechanics requirement, you have to be
able to arch the wrists down significantly to get a single axis setup
alignment configuration at address, I cant do that myself with the club
grip in my palm because I simply do not have enough ulnar deviation range
in my wrists.
So I always evaluate an individuals range of motion capabilities in there
joints etc before I recommend specific grip placement types , I personally
favour hinging my wrists as apposed to cocking them because of my own lack
of ulnar deviation range of movement, so it final analysis I just think you
have to experiment with your own anatomical range of motion capabilities to
set the grip optimally.
Many thanks JH – Luckily I have quite a range of ulner and radial deviation
, so yes , worth experimenting to find how easy I can get a single axis
without having the shaft too much in the palm of my right hand.
Hey JH,Thanks for all your videos. I think you should have a video talking
about the lateral slide vs. a lateral turn. This makes a big difference in
my swing. As you pointed out by sliding it keeps the hips in check and will
help one to hit the ball straighter vs. a draw.Secondly, on your “swing the
club” video you talk about swinging easy, i.e., until the club gets about
+-24″ in front of the bal. In another video “swing from the top” you talk
about swinging from the top. I find it a little confusing because “swinging
the club” is about hitting later in the swing. If one concentrates on
“swinging from the top” would not one swing too soon????Gerry
The starting from the top is just another physical ‘feeling’ to initiate
the downswing, some players if they shift or work their ‘lower’ body they
can get to much spinning of the lower body which can take the shoulder
girdle with it and you can get over the ball on the downswing, the upper
lead shoulder quadrant move will always drop the club head backwards and
not forwards which will give you still the later club head application.
Its not an early moving of the ‘club head’..its a an early movement of the
I will try and do something on the ‘lateral’ hip slide as apposed to the
conscious early hip turning/clearance.
Hi JH – Just a small observation that sort of ‘rang a bell in my head’
regarding Moe’s excessive primary tilt . Do you think he found by trial and
error , that his straight legs and overly primary tilt helped him swing the
club on a plane that also restricted the cocking of his wrists? When I have
a more upright primary tilt , my arms get lifted more vertical near the end
of the backswing and the inertia of the clubhead cocks my wrists and opens
up the clubface (I can’t stop this without musculature effort which can
tense my wrists and arms). When I replicate Moe’s primary tilt and straight
legs it feels really weird but the swing path and inertia of the clubhead
seems to promotes hinging rather than cocking, making it easier for me to
square the clubface in the downswing.
I think Moe’s general address angles were brought about purely by his
personal body segment lengths and proportional mass distribution relative
to maintaining ‘his’ required balance factors again relative to how he
wanted to swing the club.
To simplify that I think he just kept setting himself to positions of
difference until he found one that enabled ‘him’ to swing the club with the
repeatability he wanted, where he ended up being finally was because it
provided the structure he needed for the ball flight he wanted, nothing more
As well remember he was already into his turn because of the positioning of
his club head back from the ball so he was already loading a bit right to
begin with, I always feel that a ‘hinging’ action will be easier when the
shoulders turn more level as apposed to more vertically because connection
is way easier to maintain and the lead arm in going ‘sideways’ as apposed
to ‘upwards ‘ keeps the lead forearm squarer to the rotation arc and the
wrist can hinge more naturally, very hard to hinge the wrist when the
forearm is is moving ‘up’ as opposed to ‘sideways’ and around.
I hope that is not to abstract as an explanation but it is hard to explain
the process verbally as apposed to demonstrating it visually.
Many thanks again JH – makes sense to me.
enjoy your videos .. for single-axis (moe norman) .. how do you gauge the
distance to the ball with different clubs? I read somewhere for instance,
8-iron would be about 24 inches from toe line. That seems to be way out
there; i almost feel like i’m tipping over. Thanks for any insight.
I never think about any distance ‘measurements’ , I have no idea why the
Natural Golf guys went down the measurement road with crazy numbers like
they suggested, you cant have a specific measurement for everyone, players
have different length arms and balance factors.
I have never thought about a ‘measurement’ ever, I just balance my body
structure and where my arms end up placing the club head is the
measurement, you just need to extend your arms to the extent you can
comfortably balance your swing and rotation movements.
You cant setup by a specific ‘measurement’, just setup to suit ‘You’, and
if you feel that by stretching your arms to an extended formation you are
unbalanced in feeling just relax the arms until you get the balance you
need, I dont fully extend my arms, we are not built like Moe was mostly so
we need to setup as best suits ‘Us’ …
+1atomicgolf thanks, JH. that makes sense. now I’m wondering about club lie
angles. when I feel balanced at address in single plane setup, my irons are
toe down (not level) .. still hit pretty straight shots with mid irons, not
so much with shorter irons. Curious about your thoughts on club fitting and
lie angles. I don’t mean to stray from the essence of your videos, but club
fitting seems to also be a requirement for optimal success for natural golf
to add on that conciese thought. j.h. I should have said consiese feeling
to imparting my will on the ball.I think moes swing mechanics are
genius.basicly i feel the club goes back on ball and when the wrist or
before wrist fully hinges transferring back there is that latteral shift
into ground left alla knee bend left side tug easy stuff right.now here’s
where my conciese thought or feeling is.I feel the the upper move back a
bit maybe a counter balancing and the right arm hand is my key firing
through impact.it really is amazing how square and up the line it feels
with great compression. great days to you jh.
That all sounds eminently relative to the stuff I advocate , I will be
doing something tomorrow that I think will get your interest, its another
very intrinsic part of Moe’s mechanics that really puts the icing on the
cake so to speak, I could never get it a[[lied in my own swing until the
last few days, but man when I did it was crazy good contact, and totally
automatic squaring of the club face at impact, the ball flight and contact
I am getting now is frying my brain, it has only taken me 21 years to
understand how to apply the move that is creating the difference in contact
and ball flight.
Moe showed me the move 21 years ago but It scared me trying to do it
because I wasn’t committed enough to the move, I just revisited it 2 days
ago and went overboard with the application and it worked…like perfectly.