Posted by William on October 25, 2016 in Moe Norman
You mentioned in a previous reply to me that Bubba Watson was a ‘hitting
swinger’ rather than a ‘swinging hitter’. Are you able to define for me
what a hitter is compared to a swinger? I thought pushing meant hitting ,
while pulling meant swinging (but this is probably a bit too simplistic).
Personally I think the active creation and release of leverage is a pure
hitter , while a passive creation/release of leverage angles , responding
and maybe adding a bit to ‘gravity/centripetal’ forces (at the right time)
is swinging (maybe with a bit of hit if giving extra impetus).
+P SMITH To put a simplistic description in place I guess I would go down
this road, a Swinger’ is still ‘developing’ his leverage through impact
whereas the hitter is ‘applying’ his leverage’, with Bubba in particular
the obvious ‘leverage intent application’ is evident in the way he loses
his feet contact with the ground at impact.
That happens because he clearly is trying to ‘put’ the club on the ball as
apposed to letting the club free wheel , as well most swingers have a more
elliptic shape to their swings …the hitters have a narrower/steeper hand
path coming down.
I don’t think you could have a more graphic example of someone who
‘actively’ creates leverage and ‘deliberately ‘releases that activity than
Jamie Sadlowski, if we use your analogy that would classify him as a
swinger, he is so deliberate in his ‘hit’ mechanics that he creates so much
steepness in his attack plane that he has to bend his left arm dramatically
through impact to stop the club head going into the ground , or in his case
with the driver going under the ball… I don’t think we could ever put
Jamie in the ‘Swinger’ category.
Again to put more of a simplistic description on a swinger… they try to
keep ‘building’ momentum as apposed to ‘releasing’ it a specific time.
Its just how I see swingers as apposed to hitters, there is a ‘hit’ in all
golf swings…I believe the best way to do that is to have a ‘swinging
hit’..as apposed to a ‘Hitting Swing’….
+1atomicgolf Many thanks JH . Will be looking forward to any more nuggets
of information about Count Yogi that you might remember (especially his
chipping action). Went to the range today and tried both ‘Moe Norman
hybrid’ and Count’s actions with very favourable results with the latter.
So high and straight I could hardly believe it and very easy on the body
too. Obviously my swing plane was far more vertical with the Count’s action
but the reverse loading seems to help my kinetic sequence. All I am
practicing now is ‘waiting’ in the backswing and then trying to swing up to
a finish elegantly. Its also so strange that the swing works better for me
with a very light pressured neutral grip, rather than the firm strong grip
I used for the ‘wisdom in golf’ swing (that I am also testing out).
+P SMITH Thats great you had some success with the Count’s swing, Really I
have no idea what ‘actually’ happened relative to the Count’s mechanics,
and frankly probably even The Count didn’t really know what the actual bio
mechanical /gross motor processes were, I do believe he absolutely knew
what the Mental process was to ‘get’ the resultant bio mechanical/gross
motor processes to repeat themselves the way they did.
We have all at one time had our bodies produce a swing that was amazing and
for the greater part was the resultant of something we ‘thought’ as an
applicable swing mechanics process, the difference with the Count was the
profound level of his cerebral control repeat ability, he clearly knew in
absolute finite levels of understanding how to isolate the specific swing
thought requirement that produced his amazing swing sequencing.
In liaising with his godson he says that he actually knows how the Count
applied his mental command program , he said the Count told him how he
isolated the swing ‘thought/feeling’ to a locked cerebral program that
could never be diluted or compromised, I cant wait to spend some time with
Timothy Nichols and hopefully have Tim enlighten me as to that amazing
I guess if Timothy didn’t want to tell me what the Count actually did I
wouldn’t be surprised, after all he knows what must be considered the ‘Holy
Grail’ of the Golf Swing understanding and because he is the ‘only’ person
that does know it I could understand him wanting to keep the ‘Great
Secret’, I can but live in hope.
As far as ‘more nuggets’ .. I have my ‘own’ take on what I think the count
did with his pitching/chipping/putting , as well the process of ‘swinging
up’ with all shots certainly needs more explanation relative to how ‘I’ see
the process being applied.
What is very interesting is you saying you are applying the ‘look elegant’
swing thought, it is amazing how just that thinking an produce a swing that
has so many good aspects to it, the ‘up’ attack finish will certainly give
you higher and much straighter ball flight, I think there is quite a lot of
potential for us all to explore ‘Yogiing’ as a swing process.
Hi JH. Moe would be very pleased that you hit the Driver without having to
replace the tee every time you drove the ball out. Please move the camera
closer so we can get a better view of your stance and motion. You stand to
far from the camera. Thanks for your work.
+Joaquin Valadez Hi Joaquin,
I position the camera as I do so as to allow a wider angle of subject
capture, if I move the camera closer I am restricted in where I stand to
stay in frame when recording, as well I like to hit a different shot
‘every’ time I make swing, it may look the same on camera but I never let
myself fall into hitting the ball with a repetitious no concern for target
mentality, you don’t don’t that when you play so I don’t do it when I
As well I never advocate a specific ball position for anyone, so I place no
emphasis on that aspect when videoing, everyone must try different ball
positions to suit their physical construction, what works for my frame
invariably doesn’t work for other people.
The whole emphasis of my teachings is to only impart the ‘principals’ of
any process or technique, the application of the ‘principals’ must be done
by the student to suit their physicality’s and mobility factors, ball
position should ‘always’ be trial and error, what works for me or Moe is
Jack Nicklaus for example played ‘every’ shot of his left heel position,
that suited his very upright swing plane , if Lee Trevino tried that ball
position he would have flat missed the ball, its a Game of
‘experimentation’ , I never advocate ‘specific’ principals of positioning
cheers JH PS My best session of hitting the driver without replacing the
tee was 126 shots in a row at a clinic one day, Moe told me he did 142 one
day at a clinic .
Not to criticize you but you forgot to say that the main reason Moe Normans
swing was longer most of his playing career was that he lifted the heel of
his front foot , not due the flexibility. I know Moe himself said otherwise
but he said many things that he actually did not do when playing. Manuel de
la Torres and Ernest Jones in summary both in a little difference both
taught the same thing how to swing the golf club. Your right about Moe had
beautiful flow I believe he probably could do this mainly cause he like the
other great players practiced until they did not have to think about
+Daniel Ahlström Hi Daniel, I really think his swing of younger days was
longer because he was just ‘younger’… he was a very slight build of
person in his playing days and his midriff was half the size it was at his
older age, he could make a big shoulder turn with that midriff flexibility
and lack of body mass and as a result his big shoulder turn actually pulled
his left heel off the ground.
I met a canadian guy years ago that had pictures of Moe when he was 25
years old and his shoulder vturn was incredible back then, you are
absolutely correct in saying Moe said he did a lot of different stuff that
he actually didn’ do, particularly when he was with Natural Golf, he
basically said everything Jack Kuykendall wanted him to say, especially
about his grip.
It t is fun to discuss Moe with you and I agree with many things regarding
to Moe, but we disagree on the heel part though, for most people what your
saying would be true a big shoulder turn can cause to lift the heel.
I have seen many pictures and every clip available as well and my analysis
of them are that he clearly lifts it before his shoulders are fully turned
I believe he did it on intent. Why I is that I myself lifted the heel when
I was younger and that was cause of my big shoulder turn like u say, I
agree with you that he had a bigger shoulder turn as younger when he wanted
to we all probably did. But I know how it feels to swing that way and what
it looks like and I have seen pictures of him when it is very clear that
lifts it way before his shoulders are turned fully. checks out this clip he
is not so slight in that one and clearly lifts it, the shoulder turn is not
that big either:
Moe Norman – One of the Greatest Golf Swings in History, pause it on 0,20,
0,30 or 1,33. I think he actually did change his swing on intent like
Tom Kite decided to do, but also like u say cause I think it is very
related to his increased body size, I believe he had to do something cause
of his increased body size but also cause I believe he alway wanted to
improve and he hit it straighter this way.
Take care / Daniel
Hi JH – I had a lot of success yesterday with using a Moe Hybrid swing
yesterday (and also pretty good results with Yogi action too – starting to
hit the driver better). But I also saw a You Tube video today by Shawn
Clement (Distance to Ball Locker Drill ) which confused me . This is where
he set up like single plane to a locker door in front of him and swung to a
‘target glass door’ and missed the locker door by a few inches. Basically
he is inferring that if you set up (like Moe) at address (as per impact
plane) but focused on swinging to a target rather than focusing on hitting
the ball , then one would miss the ball. Does that make any sense to you
because I can’t think of a reason why that would happen? Did Moe swing to a
target in his ‘minds eye’? Also , can we use negative loading for the Moe
Norman swing too (aka Yogi)?
+P SMITH Hi Keith,
I haven’t seen the Clement video, Moe did ‘say’ he swung the club to the
target but clearly he swung the club head to the left on the forward part
of the swing circle like everyone else after impact, and the video taken
from above him in that clinic way back clearly indicates his left of line
release was quite severe, again like all other good ball strikers.
Until I see Shawn’s video I cant comment on his reasoning, you can use
negative loading with the Moe swing , its just a bit ‘ more of a ‘leaving’
behind of the clubhead in the take away than normal .
One point on on trying to ‘hit to the target’..if you deliberately try to
force the club head to track lineally down the ball impact line instead of
letting it go to the left after impact naturally the lead arm will come
away from the upper body and the arm will not fold correctly after impact
which means it is going to be tracking wrongly through impact, just
remember that the club head must swing in a half circle, there are no
‘straight’ lines in a golf swing.
+1atomicgolf Keith I actually responded after looking at that video of
Shawn’s but posted my reply above on D Martins comments. above.
+1atomicgolf Many thanks JH – Good point about swinging too laterally if
overly target orientated, never occurred to me. Do you personally swing to
a target or are you focusing on anything else in particular (ie. like maybe
the centre of the clubface – aka Yogi?). I’ve heard that external focus
(ie. swinging the clubhead or cutting the dandelion stem , etc ) are better
than internalised thoughts (ie. body position, weight pressure on this or
that foot , etc).
+P SMITH Hi Keith, Personally I just ‘think’ target and my body seems to
orientate my setup to get the club face pointing in the direction I want
the ball to start, my eyes set my body to the target address requirement
and because I never look at the club head the club face direction never
confuses my direction set thinking process.
With my new swing countdown sequence I do have a conscious thought line
going on but its the ‘same’ every time so its not confusing as would
‘different’ thought processes be.
The main thing I try to achieve every swing is to get the ‘feeling’ of the
club head being ‘heavy’ in my hands, which means I have to ‘swing’ the club
away if I am to maintain the ‘heavy’ feeling of the club, I definitely
never try to think of putting the club face on the ball in any manner of
thought, the ball justs gets ‘in the way’ of the swinging club head.